please help me to find the meaning of a word in tunisian berber?

[eliko]

Maybe you might solve an old riddle:
what is the meaning of the word DIGHET in tunisian berber?

The riddle emerged thus:
In the island of Djerba (Tunisia) there's a site named: "Houmet beni dighet", which is known due to its special species of barley, about which one can read (in the 13-th section) here: http://www.ibgs.cz/photos/book_of_abstracts/Session_1.htm.

The name of this site sounds berber, but I've never succeeded to inquire what is the meaning of the third word of the name: "dighet". Unfortunately, I don't speak berber, nor do I read arabic (I just speak arabic, or rather: the tunisian dialect of arabic). So, maybe you are indeed the person who might be able to solve my old riddle: what is "dighet" in tunisian-berber?

Thanks in advance.

[AkbouBoy]

Hi,

Unfortunately, the Arabo-Islamicky colonialists tend to change authentic Berber names to give them an Arab*c sound - thus further alienating the authentic culture of North Africa.

The name suggests that Dighet is a Berber tribe (?). The meaning is probably: The District of Dighet Tribe / Family.

I don't think you will get much help here. The Berber language spoken in Kabylia and Southern Tunisia is quite different :lol:
I suggest you drop by the MondeBerbere forums (http://p214.ezboard.com/fmondeberberefrm1) to ask for more help. A few Tunisian Berbers post in that forum and will be able to shed better light on your quest.

Good luck!

[laBylka77]

Maybe you might solve an old riddle:
what is the meaning of the word DIGHET in tunisian berber?

The riddle emerged thus:
In the island of Djerba (Tunisia) there's a site named: "Houmet beni dighet", which is known due to its special species of barley, about which one can read (in the 13-th section) here: http://www.ibgs.cz/photos/book_of_abstracts/Session_1.htm.

The name of this site sounds berber, but I've never succeeded to inquire what is the meaning of the third word of the name: "dighet". Unfortunately, I don't speak berber, nor do I read arabic (I just speak arabic, or rather: the tunisian dialect of arabic). So, maybe you are indeed the person who might be able to solve my old riddle: what is "dighet" in tunisian-berber?

Thanks in advance.

hello

I have a girlfriend tunisiane, I will ask him that, can be she has a answer to your riddle ! one never knows !

thanks eliko

[Hmiducc]

Maybe you might solve an old riddle:
what is the meaning of the word DIGHET in tunisian berber?

The riddle emerged thus:
In the island of Djerba (Tunisia) there's a site named: "Houmet beni dighet",
The name of this site sounds berber, but I've never succeeded to inquire what is the meaning of the third word of the name: "dighet". So, maybe you are indeed the person who might be able to solve my old riddle: what is "dighet" in tunisian-berber?

Thanks in advance.

I have been thinking about the meaning ... for awhile ... but could not come to a definite formulation.
But here I am trying to, at least, find a lead.

But before I venture suggesting the meaning, I like to stress that I am a berber speaker who knows no arabic and who has spent some time in the Chawi region. And it's this sojourn that leads me to the meaning I'll suggest after this explanation:

It is well known (so my Chawi friends tell me) that the word Chawi originated from the fact that these people used to raise sheep.
So apparently Chawi means who tend sheep.

Now the closest word to dighet I know in berber means GOAT.

But there is a problem:

We should say taghat in Kabyle which means literally: The goat. (whether it's male or female).
In Chawi region I often heard people say dighet to name not one goat but the SPECIE.

I hate to suggest that Beni Houmet Dighet means The Region Of The Sons of the Goats ...or the descendants of that specie for that matter..... but it could mean as an extrapolation from the Chawi: The Keepers of Goats.

Don't we have in the States Cowboys, in New Zealand Kiwis... and who knows by which of our animals some have been named after!?

Anyway, I tried....
Ar tufat

[eliko]

Hi,

You've helped me much!!:cat2_h4h:

By the way, the site "Houmet beni dighet" is located in the island Djerba of Tunisia, whereas the tunisian-berber is a Zenati language, just like the tachawit! not like the taqbaylit!

here:

http://www.ethnologue.com/show_family.asp?subid=90006

you'll be able to see the table which classifies the zenati dialects (including the tunisian Sened and the algerian Chawiya) as a sub-family of languages - among the whole berber language family.

So it's rather probable that the berber-language of Chawi is similiar to the berber-language of Tunisia!

To sum up: the two (zenati) berber dialects in Djerba (of Tunisia) and in Chawi (of Algeria) - have a common word: dighet, meaning: sheep (the specie). this word is a little different than the (non-zenati) Kabyle word: taghat.

By the way, for how long have you been in the Chawi region? do you define yourself as a Chawi-speaker?

Eliko.

[eliko]

By the way, I've found the word "dight" in the forum:

In the long message - here:

http://www.kabyle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21128&highlight=dight

I've highlighted there the word "dighet" by red color.

There it appears in the sentence:

"Aweddun allam dight taqechourt ala l adab f lislam ??"

Could you translate that sentence into english?

Thanx in advance,

eliko.

[eliko]

good night.

[Hmiducc]

By the way, I've found the word "dight" in the forum:

In the long message -
I've highlighted there the word "dighet" by red color.

There it appears in the sentence:

"Aweddun allam dight taqechourt ala l adab f lislam ??"

Could you translate that sentence into english?

Thanx in advance,

eliko.

Sorry, but this sentece is not in the Chawi language.

It is in ta Chelhit, another berber language in the Morroco Altas.

Unfortunetly in their language there are "mutations" in the sound. (Think of the G and J in Egyptian arabic)

I will not venture translate because I fail to recognize the word taqechourt .....

I can check further and post my findinding.

Good night.

[eliko]

For how long have you been In the Chawi region?

Do you define yourself as a Chawi speaker?

Have you seen my message I sent before the message to which you have just responded?

bye.

[Ethery]

For how long have you been In the Chawi region?

Do you define yourself as a Chawi speaker?

Have you seen my message I sent before the message to which you have just responded?

bye.


Azul,
My name is Ethery A A and i have to my credit this ability to connect the dots lol. This joke apart , i have been lucky to have started early the comparative study of similartities between the variants which have been at its onset as a curiousity then become an obscession. The premise was :how is it possible that everybody from one side of the north african strip(Berber) says aghroum ,amen ,akker, kim ,azel, arouel ,attess, amekli ,amensi etc ..(sorry for this latter "izane") and yet they find many ways to diverge ,sometimes to the points where the phonetic become almost inteligible! In reality for the careful observer ,whenever it's not obvious, it's possible to get the meaning by resoting to the synonyms in own variant ,it's likely that one of the synonyms with a minor phonetic modification is the right one
I had applied this in 1976 while in a trip in the area of Abekane ,Nador (rif) au Marroc successfully although the langauge in the Rif is far similar to chawi and to Chenoua as well as to the Ouargla region of the south and possibly to the tunisian berber (if we refer to history there is a good reason to believe why this is true)
Off course ,people from the kabylie region who have moved to the Aures such as the Haj Oueamer family (in the area of sedrata) the ait zaouch (khenchela) aa well as Ait kaki and si said ,ait zai in the other area of meskiana clairefontaine ,ouenza and have immersed well have acquired this analytic ability due to exposure and the contrary is also true for the chawi who are in the border of Petite kabylie,needless to say that had become a second nature for the inconsciently. to support this argment, i can illustrate using this example : in the kabyle ,the word akjun (pl) ikjen veut dire dog, in chawi the vocabulary abonds they say aiidhi(dhi=the) but also they say agzun(with a z and the plural off course is Igzen . Agazidh(dh=The) in chawi become Ayzidh in kabyle
In the case of precision : aghi (milk ) In chawi there is an elment of precison
they say aghi asheffa for milk natural non altered state and aghi asemmam for the (petit lait) ,in kabyle aghi simply(no precison) means "petit lait "while asheffa means nature
I hope this setting of stage gives you more enlightment in your quest to unravel the riddle should the following information come short to satisfy your question.

Now to get back to your question (bni Dghit) if I follow the lead ,which is a the worm at he end of the hook i am nibbling on ,lol .
You mentioned ghoat and this is no where close to the chawi name whici is
Aga-ozet. In kabyle thagat ,close enough but not obvious however the new born and progeny of the goat in chawi is known as Ighidh (dh=The) something to think about .... Another argument pleading in favor of the name is the fact that chawi and berber of the south in tunisia as well as somepocket remote in the area of "Kef" thijerouine, Tala maybe also zrissa are all in the extension fo the lesser aures region which is the extreme east of what is now algeria. Another fact, in general names given by foreigner to natives are either degrading or pormoting ...what would be the correlation between the" ighit "(progeny) and the food that is traditionally favored to be given to animals for purpose of fattening them "Barley =orge in french Imzine" in berber i this case remain to be found in the characteristic of this tribe :either in their diet or activities or affiliation .
And yes ,the language of the tunisian berber is very similar to the chawi specially the tribes that are in the extention of the west and south ot tunisia.
I hope i shed somelight on this topic and if i created confusion i beg your pardon .Please keep in mind alos that in the chawi as well as kabylie there are differneces form tirbe to tribe or area to area and so the chawi spoken in the aures has some difference but not fundamental to the one spoken in m'daourouch home of (st augustin)(ouled khiar )or in meskiana,mesloula and sedrata or other regions near guelma, and this is true for the Grande and petite kabylie

AT
Ethery A A

[eliko]

So, according to your interesting explanation, the most probable meaning of the tunisian berber name "dighet" is the "kid of goat" (i.e. "chevreau" in french). Is it correct?

By the way, where is the accent (the strees) in the chawi word "dhighidh"? is it on the (first sylable) "dhi", or on the (last sylable) "ghidh"? In Djerba, the word "dighet" is pronounced with the accent (stress) on the first sylable, so "dighet" is much more similar to "dight" (than to "dghet").

And another question: How do you say "the ash" (i.e. "la cendre" in french) in the chawi language? Is it possible to translate "dighed" into "the ash"?

I'm very grateful. You have helped me much!

[Ethery]

Hi,

You've helped me much!!:cat2_h4h:

By the way, the site "Houmet beni dighet" is located in the island Djerba of Tunisia, whereas the tunisian-berber is a Zenati language, just like the tachawit! not like the taqbaylit!

here:

http://www.ethnologue.com/show_family.asp?subid=90006

you'll be able to see the table which classifies the zenati dialects (including the tunisian Sened and the algerian Chawiya) as a sub-family of languages - among the whole berber language family.

So it's rather probable that the berber-language of Chawi is similiar to the berber-language of Tunisia!

To sum up: the two (zenati) berber dialects in Djerba (of Tunisia) and in Chawi (of Algeria) - have a common word: dighet, meaning: sheep (the specie). this word is a little different than the (non-zenati) Kabyle word: taghat.

By the way, for how long have you been in the Chawi region? do you define yourself as a Chawi-speaker?

Eliko.


I have answered your mail and decided to post this for the benifit of all ,thinking maybe somone will be interested in broadening his vocabulary horizon.
Ethery AA

Eureka!
And yes I have over looked that one ! You know the power of suggestion had funneled my search around the goat and company while it was very simple to remember the ash yes in chawi and rifi and chenoua , i think also in the area of Aghadir, morroco is the same, the name is ighedh (pronounced as follow ea : from eagle, gha : like the arabic letter flat ,and dh=the ,except the"the" ends of the phonetic is abrupt and sudden . what a small world ..it's the ash endeed
while le chevrau is pronounced :
Ighidh I : form ea in eagle
ghi : comme dans"riz" little stretched (un r un peu Parisien lol)
dh : abrupt
It appears now that the origin of their name might be in their socioeconomic status or activity they excelled or practiced for a longer period of time.
Could they have been engaging in iron work which used carbon or have they been known to produce carbon or any activity that have this label with ash?
That, you might know it better than I . As far as what language I speak ?Speaking : Yes I speak several variants of the berber languages and have visited many places and hope to complete a bigger number . Are you in the states or in the UK? or anyother english speaking country?
Au plaisir de te lire bientot
Ethery A A

[Hmiducc]

So, according to your interesting explanation, the most probable meaning of the tunisian berber name "dighet" is the "kid of goat" (i.e. "chevreau" in french). Is it correct?
.....................................


"Aweddun allam dight taqechourt ala l adab f lislam ??"
So bring (with you) a rebellious (billy) GOAT before damnation (fire) strikes
taqechourt: actually this word means unruly, mean, even sometimes dirty.

I hope this addendum to what I wrote earlier would convince you that the word dight means dfinitely the (billy) goat.
Initially I suggested the goat species.

Now that I have search and cross reference through readind acquaintances from the Sous, Chawi, Rif and Kabyle regions I find out:

Dight: in the Rif region it definetly means (male) goat

In the Middle Atlas they use: "ighjd" to name the same animal.

Kabyle: DIGHT is definitely the word that means GOAT but we use a variant which (ta)ghat and the plural form Tighten (ti sounds close to the English th+I and gh like the french R.

As I mentioned earlier the word could mean the (goat) specy

Now I have to add something here that may explain why from one region to the other there are mutations in the sounds, AND of COURSE IN THE MEANINGS.

As you may know, English is the most complex language on earth.
One word could be used (with another word) so many things such as:
TO GO and then we have:
To go away, go back, do down, go up … and so on.

But here comes a new language: The American English in which ORIGINAL English meaning are lost:
Eg: Maize in England is Corn in the US
Lorry “ “ is Truck “ “ “

Then we have the spelling which may bring in a different sound:

Labour (in England) is Labor in the US ….

Or think of which and witch (close sounds)


Now among the berber this is far more common because the language has been orally transmitted… and I spare you by providing only two exemples:

In Kabylie the word for Crescent is AGUR … in Thachelhit it is AYOUR

We often find a substitution of a sound in some words.

And in some regions they do not use le sound L (as in light) , they substitute the sound y (as in you)

And to finish the berber language has seen the MEANINGS of some WORD change from one region to another….

Of course I take the American English as a reference to the British English to illustrate:
The American language has evolved, and written at that, in 400 years… and you can appreciate what happened to the Berber.

And I don’t’t even want to suggest what happened to … the latin!

Cheers!